Posts by Cold Steel

59

What Do Mormons Really Believe? RE: The Nov. 8, 1995 Awake Magazine

by D_Rolling_Kearney in

i am a member of the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints, and i have written a heavily-documented response to the official magazine of the jehovah's witnesses, awake!, that claims to teach what we believe.

i saw an article from last year's watchtower about a guy who had barely been mormon for very long, and obviously did not know what we believe, who was given this magazine by jw's to show him "the truth.

" he claims to have proven to himself that it was true from information on the lds church's website.

Cold Steel

Do the mormons also teach misinformation about other groups?

Absolutely not.

59

What Do Mormons Really Believe? RE: The Nov. 8, 1995 Awake Magazine

by D_Rolling_Kearney in

i am a member of the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints, and i have written a heavily-documented response to the official magazine of the jehovah's witnesses, awake!, that claims to teach what we believe.

i saw an article from last year's watchtower about a guy who had barely been mormon for very long, and obviously did not know what we believe, who was given this magazine by jw's to show him "the truth.

" he claims to have proven to himself that it was true from information on the lds church's website.

Cold Steel

Based on my own personal research, Mormons have a significantly higher proportion of hot-looking elders than do JWs. There are 28 such good-looking Mormon elders to 0.5 JW elders. By this result, good-looking JW elders are infuriatingly rare. This is not a trivial fact but one that lovers of fine-looking men will appreciate.

Umm...I don't think we're your type, Steve. But you happen to be right. I'm rockin' hot at 60! No gray hair. Just a bit of nose and ear hair, which I keep fashionably trimmed.

59

What Do Mormons Really Believe? RE: The Nov. 8, 1995 Awake Magazine

by D_Rolling_Kearney in

i am a member of the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints, and i have written a heavily-documented response to the official magazine of the jehovah's witnesses, awake!, that claims to teach what we believe.

i saw an article from last year's watchtower about a guy who had barely been mormon for very long, and obviously did not know what we believe, who was given this magazine by jw's to show him "the truth.

" he claims to have proven to himself that it was true from information on the lds church's website.

Cold Steel

If Mormons would allow alcohol and caffeine, they would be the better cult to choose from (just sayin')

We're having a special next week. Join and you can have all the alcohol and caffeine you want.

LisaRose: That's rich, Cold Steel commenting about the Jehovah's Witnesses not having the gift of prophecy, Pot, meet kettle. Besides, the JWs actually do not claim to have the gift of prophecy, although they are so dogmatic about their predictions and ever changing interpretation of scripture, they might as well claim they do.

And what's so "rich" about it? We claim both prophecy and revelation, just as in the ancient church. It seems that if a religion is going to claim any sort of legitimacy, it must have these gifts. The Jehovah's Witnesses just assumed to be God's represented Kingdom on Earth. But how does that work? How do they know God chose them in 1919 (or whenever)? Or that Jesus returned "invisibly"?

Cold steel, you are allowed to post even though you were never a JW, and are usually promoting Mormonism. I don't know if I would be that generous if it were my board.

I only promote Mormonism when someone denegrates it. I have never posted even one topic on Mormonism. If othe people don't bring it up, I never mention it. Also, Mormonism has almost nothing in common with the JWs...I fail to see why people keep trying to link it. Are we a "cult"? Yes. Was early Christianity a cult? Absolutely! In fact, we have much more in common with first century Christianity than any other church I'm aware of.

59

What Do Mormons Really Believe? RE: The Nov. 8, 1995 Awake Magazine

by D_Rolling_Kearney in

i am a member of the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints, and i have written a heavily-documented response to the official magazine of the jehovah's witnesses, awake!, that claims to teach what we believe.

i saw an article from last year's watchtower about a guy who had barely been mormon for very long, and obviously did not know what we believe, who was given this magazine by jw's to show him "the truth.

" he claims to have proven to himself that it was true from information on the lds church's website.

Cold Steel

As many posters know, I’m also a member of the LDS Church. And I’ve been here for years, having first visited this site when part of my extended family joined the Society (it’s NOT a church, yet it baptizes people into the name of the Father and the Son and to the Spirit-led organization representing Jehovah on Earth) and, getting back to my family, pretty much cut us off at the knees.

For one thing, Rolling, the Society would NEVER, ever, sponsor a forum for member exchange. This is what’s called a “recovery board.” And many of its members have gone from true believers to doubters, and then, unfortunately, to atheism and the spite and disillusionment that comes with it. After having thought they first knew all the answers as Jehovah’s Witnesses, they now, as unbelievers, again think they have all the answers.

The history of the organization — the “outfit,” as the Chicago mob were called — is magnificently lacking in any spiritual gifts such as prophecy; not that they haven’t tried to prophesy. It just hasn’t worked out. They call other religions “manmade” and reject much of first century Christianity and eschatology, basing themselves in a foundation of Replacement Theology. They view themselves as the inheritors of the blessings given to Jacob and God no longer cares about Judah and Israel. Also, there are no angels, no direct communication with Deity, no witnesses of their divine calling. And though it’s not a church, it will disfellowship (excommunicate) anyone who joins one. If you even go to one for a wedding or a visit, you’re toast; and if you’re caught in one during “Armageddon” (the Society’s view of the end of the Age), you’ll be slaughtered with the others who happen to be there with you. It’s viewed as false religion, Babylon the Great.

Bottom line, you won’t change any minds. But you will learn a lot about the Society and its structure. And there are plenty of nice people here who have not lost faith in Christianity; however, tread lightly. The atheists think they’re the only ones here.

31

When a JW's life comes close to its end...

by suavojr in

talking with a long time elder last night, was very revealing.

he has been a jw for over 60 years, a man that was incarcerated in cuba in his early 20s and faced great loss and suffering over his beliefs and for being born in a communist country.

this brave man is now brittle and low-spirited.. while nightfalls on his life, he is made aware the end is near.

Cold Steel

I have no proof of anything, just a belief. In the near death experiences I've read, people talk about these spirits wandering the earth. Some of them trouble the living as "ghosts" and abide among the spirits of Satan, seeking to lead the living astray. Eventually, these spirits do move on; however, the spirits of those who followed Satan are trapped here until the return of Christ. They will then be bound until the end of the Millennium. Some of those who have had near death experiences have tried to communicate with these spirits, but they almost unanimously report that these attempts are futile. Howard Storm (a former atheist), Elane Durham, George Ritchie and others all report seeing these spirits and feeling the suffering and hopelessness they experience.

29

A Good Question To Ask JW to Get Them To Think

by sarahsmile in

why did you get baptized?.

what do you think they would reply?.

because it is the truth!

Cold Steel

Baptism is the gate through which one dedicates his or her life to Jesus. Going under the water represents the death and burial of Christ and coming forth from the water represents Jesus coming forth from the tomb into a newness of life. Afterwards, this covenant is renewed through the partaking of the bread and wine. Both, if done with a sincere heart, result in the forgiveness of sins.

31

When a JW's life comes close to its end...

by suavojr in

talking with a long time elder last night, was very revealing.

he has been a jw for over 60 years, a man that was incarcerated in cuba in his early 20s and faced great loss and suffering over his beliefs and for being born in a communist country.

this brave man is now brittle and low-spirited.. while nightfalls on his life, he is made aware the end is near.

Cold Steel

He may die sad, but what of it? If atheists are right, he'll be just like a flashlight with batteries that wear out. And it doesn't matter if people die happy or sad. Once they fade into nothingness, they simply cease to be. But if there is a life after death, Jehovah's Witnesses and other Adventists will necessarily have to adjust to the fact that they were wrong about the afterlife. Is it better to be an atheist at the end, or cling to the hope that there will be "something" better coming?

The worst case scenario is to die and then discover that cows are ruling the Universe. I'm not sure I could adjust to that.

People who have had near death experiences have reported that die-hard atheists have the most difficulty in passing. Many, they say, are gripped with a fear of being damned to an eternal hell because of their disbelief. And until they humble themselves, they remain in the company of a host of other spirits who roam the earth in confusion and depression. So only time will tell.

14

why does the Wt hate Jesus so much?

by Crazyguy in

even in the anniversary year were they claim jesus being enthroned for a hundred years they talk and say jehovah is king, its still all about jehovah, i don't get it?.

Cold Steel

Seeing that the early Christians associated Jesus as the Old Testament Yahweh, it still hasn't dawned on them. They still think he was an angel and have even depicted him with wings.

58

Bible Atrocities

by Trapped in JW land in

i really can't wrap my head around how people can still consider god loving with such atrocious biblical accounts such as, 1 samuel 15, (god ordering the slaughter of amelikite baby's and children) 2nd kings 2, forgot the verses (god sending bears to maul 42 children) and many others.have you ever asked a witness or anyone elsewhat they think about these accounts?

what was their response?

i'd love to ask one, but unfortunately i'm still physically in the cult and i wouldn't want to raise any suspicions.

Cold Steel

John Preston: ...God told Eve she would die if she ate the fruit without Eve having the slightest inkling of an idea about what death was. Didn’t know the consequences and was ignorant of disobedience until the disobedience was carried out. Yet God cursed us all because of a mistake of eating fruit and listening to a snake. Then punishes snakes instead of Satan....yet he says he’s merciful and loving.

That’s a very superficial way of looking at it from a theological aspect. I prefer to think of it as God intending that we should fall. After all, if He didn’t foresee what would happen before He placed them on the earth, He wasn’t a very omniscient God, was He? And because He knew what would happen, He arranged for the atonement before Adam and Eve even stepped onto this planet. Also, because He values free agency, some believe that He had our prior permission and approval before being born.

When Adam and Eve were created, they were created as immortal beings; however, they had no glory, nor did they have a knowledge of good and evil. Had they not fallen, they would have continued on without the ability to become like their Father. Unfortunately, to do this, they had to pass through death and receive the benefits of an eternal sacrifice. Thus it was all worked out in advance. We accepted death, a veil of forgetfulness, and the free agency to follow the promptings of both good and evil. We had a lot to lose, but we also had a great deal to gain.

Both the Greek Orthodox and the Mormons take this view, more or less, and if you read the New Testament books by John, he explains that because of Christ, man has the ability to inherit everything that Christ did. Because of Jesus’ sacrifice, man has the power to become equal to Christ, who is one with the Father. Instead of living out eternity as pasty, naïve beings with no power of reaching out eternal potential, we have the power of being resurrected to a host of varying glories, the greatest of which is to become like Christ and of having access to all knowledge, all glory and dominion. In short, Adam and Eve, by falling, were as essential to our eternal potential as was Jesus.

As an Eastern Orthodox website puts it:

In Eastern Orthodoxy deification (theosis) is both a transformative process as well as the goal of that process. The goal is the attainment of likeness to or union with God. As a process of transformation theosis is brought about by the effects of katharsis (purification of mind and body) and theoria. According to eastern Orthodox teaching theosis is very much the purpose of human life. It is considered achievable only through a synergy (or cooperation) between humans’ activities and God’s uncreated energies (or operations).

Also:

St. Athanasius of Alexandria wrote, “[Jesus] was incarnate that we might be made god”. His statement is an apt description of the doctrine. What would otherwise seem absurd—that fallen, sinful man may become holy as God is holy—has been made possible through Jesus Christ, who is God incarnate.

So the above would not have been possible without first, the fall, and the subsequent atonement. Living forever in a garden would have stifled mankind, which would have been condemned to an eternity of stagnation. As the children of God, we have a brighter future outside of a garden environment, which is why it’s always stunned me that Jehovah’s Witnesses would want to return to such an existence.

Now how much of the story of Adam and Eve is figurative, and what the mechanics of the fall were, I don’t know. But I believe very much in Jesus, and Jesus certainly thought of Adam as a real person. I’m perfectly willing to make the leap of faith and continue to watch the fulfillment of prophecy unfold. Then, if I’m right, so much the better. And if I’m wrong, I’ll never know it. But I would have lived a happier, more fulfilling life.

I can’t imagine any atheist feeling ebullient about his or her realization that there is no God. They may feel some relief that they can live their lives free of any guilt over the most heinous acts imaginable and not have to worry about eternal consequences in an afterlife, but I’d think ultimately facing the last moments of life, when they can expect the lights to go forever out on their existence, would be a terrifying transition. They may go out like Stalin, shaking their fists defiantly at the heavens, or, more likely, timidly, like the woman I saw in the medical facility where I worked. Just months earlier, she had joked about being an atheist and about how she’d finally find out if she was right. But in the end, the stoicism went right out the window. I walked into her room and saw her clutching the hand of her young male nurse, a physical trainer, tears welling up in both eyes, and pleading, “I don’t want to die! I don’t want to die!” (As if he could change the inevitable.)

It would be interesting to see how many of the atheists on this site will make that transition. Will their last thoughts be how amazingly amusing and insightful Cofty’s remarks were on this forum in the days they so eloquently traded snippets? Or will they face the end like a condemned man about to be escorted from this life against his will, but wise enough to know he can’t avoid its inevitability. So he counts the steps to the execution chamber, his mind swirling in anticipation of the nothingness he was returning to.

Those who have had “near death” experiences have a near consensus in saying, upon their return, that they will never fear death again. To me, even if there is no future, I’d rather depart this life thinking that there was. But it’s up to each man to make the choice. As one ancient prophet said, “When men are learned, they think they are wise.” Either way, what we know about what’s out there in the many billions of universes and galaxies would blow our minds.

.

20

1500 year old text reports Jesus not Crucified

by designs in

found in 2000 with a group of antiquity smugglers this bible contains the gospel of barnabas according to the report in the national turk.. written in aramaic this gospel account was omitted by the church during the period of the council of nicea.. the text maintains a story similar to islam regarding jesus being a great prophet.. is has a reported value of $28million and is said to be in the museum of ankara.. http://moorishharem.com/culture-detail/1500-year-old-bible-that-jesus-christ-was-not-crucified-vatican-in-awe/.

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Cold Steel

Almost every man alive can trace his origins to one man who lived about 135,000 years ago, new research suggests. And that ancient man likely shared the planet with the mother of all women.

Interesting theory. I noted it overturned a previous theory which "suggested that men's most recent common ancestor lived just 50,000 to 60,000 years ago."

So, who was the man's father and mother? And who was the father and mother of the woman?

But over time, the male chromosome gets bloated with duplicated, jumbled-up stretches of DNA, said study co-author Carlos Bustamante, a geneticist at Stanford University in California. As a result, piecing together fragments of DNA from gene sequencing was like trying to assemble a puzzle without the image on the box top, making thorough analysis difficult.

Hmmm...but didn't someone say that life migrated from the simple to the more complex? Sounds here like Mother Nature doesn't do very good job of house cleaning!

By assuming a mutation rate anchored to archaeological events (such as the migration of people across the Bering Strait), the team concluded that all males in their global sample shared a single male ancestor in Africa roughly 125,000 to 156,000 years ago.

Why would they do that? Most people got to the Western Hemisphere by migration through the Atlantic or Pacific. The Bering Strait theory was pretty much decimated years ago.

"It's very exciting," Wilson Sayres told LiveScience. "As we get more populations across the world, we can start to understand exactly where we came from physically."

As long as it's not the Kardashians or Lady GaGa.